Response to BNP Members Article by the President

On Tuesday the 17th of November, the President of the Students' Union, Assed Baig, posted an article on this website which contained links to two websites advertising the whereabouts of known British National Party members. This article is shown below, with the links redacted:

"The website will give you a list and tell you the proximity of the BNP to where you live. Please stay safe.  There are thirty members of the BNP within 2 miles of the university in the Stoke campus!

<LINK>

The thirty members of the BNP living within 2 miles o the Stoke campus.

<LINK>"

It is important to emphasise that this is the statement of an individual and not necessarily of the Students' Union or its members.

In response to the massive feedback generated by this article, we have booked room LT1 in the Ashley Building on the Leek Road campus on Monday 23rd of November at 5PM for a debate on the issues which this article has raised.

The Union maintains its committment to confronting intolerance and prejudice wherever it is found in society and believes that the BNP's contribution to society is seldom positive. However, the Trustees of the Students Union (it's Executive Officers) feel it appropriate to remove the links from our website unless you, the members, mandate us to replace them.

Assed was right to publish the link to this website.

The BNP is not like ordinary parties. Over my years involved in socialist politics I have had many arguments with people from the Labour Party, the Conservatives and Lib Dems. Doing so in a fraternal manner, often over a pint.

In 2006 me and Assed were verbally abused by two skinheads outside the union for running a 'Dont Attack Iran' stall. Furious that Assed and I would dare to stand up for people of another country, he mumbled some incoherent islamophobic statement and ran off in a mood. 2 days later there was a gang of skinheads waiting outside my flat who attacked me.

Even worse, earlier this year, solely for the reason that I was one of the organisers of the Stoke Love Music Hate Racism Festival in Britania stadium, after coming out of an anti-racist meeting in Stoke-on-Trent, I was attacked with a bottle whilst having racist abuse screamed in my ear. I was taken to hospital with head injuries after losing conciousness and had to flee stoke for 4 months as it was fealt stoke was no longer safe for me.

What this lists provides is a resource for students to use to make sure that whilst they are picking houses to live in over the next year, they can be sure that they do not move in next to a Nazi.

Take it from someone who lives in fear of attack, this list is a useful resource that students should use to stay safe.

At no point should this list be used to attack members of the BNP. That is not what Assed intended the link to be used for and any attempt to imply that this is what his intentions were is extremly off-target. Assed Baig always has one aim in mind, to fight for peace and the safety of students at Staffordshire University

Lastly I want to address Tim Robinsons statement,

"The Union maintains its committment to confronting intolerance and prejudice wherever it is found in society and believes that the BNP's contribution to society is seldom positive."

This is presicely the point Tim, the BNP's contribution to society is Never positive. They're Nazis!

 Gary, 

Just to clarify, that's not "my" statement. That's an official response quoted in its entirety from the homepage for ease of reference.

Hope that helps,

Tim

Publishing this list on the Internet was wrong, illegal, and in breach of the trust between the people listed and whoever maintains that list. Let's not pretend that there won't be action taken by vehement anti-BNP campaigners, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility of abuse or even violence.

Bear in mind that it's not just the people on the list who are affected - people with similar names are already being hounded and harassed by anti-BNP campaigners. Publishing this list is only going to bring harm.

I'm not suggesting that I support those who sign up (I certainly don't support the BNP), but I believe they have the right to sign up. They also have the right to the same privacy that the rest of us expect. Whilst I'm sure that the things they believe in are ludicrous, maddening and offensive to many people, that doesn't mean they have lose basic civil rights to privacy and safety.

At the most they're probably misguided disillusioned uninformed citizens, rarely active racists, and their political affiliations doesn't make them criminals.

That said, linking to another website isn't directly illegal - Staffs Union hasn't hosted the content (presuming it was accessible by other methods). However, it is an anti-social, malicious and downright dangerous action to make this more visible.

The Students' Union, even a politically active Union, should not be pulling a political stunt like this. This is designed to scare people into supporting certain political parties over others; and to bring abuse and violence to those who disagree. Anyone who is naive to believe that won't happen is clearly not in a position to be making political judgements, and certainly shouldn't be publishing things to this website.

Or nailbombers, or murderers, or people who send razor blades to jews, or people who bottle anti-racist campaigners, or people convicted of racial assault.

Take your pick gerrard. For me its the fact that these dangerous individuals are organised in a political party with a combat wing that is particularly scary.

Lets not pretend that all BNP supporters are violent, rascist, and abusive and the BNP are also not the only party who have members who fit this category.

this link although not intended to insight attacks on these people may well have that effect. Students are evidently unhappy or there wouldn't have been so many complaints/ messages etc. Lets hear what the students say and then decide whether we link to this website.

i hope all students with a view on this attend the meeting on monday

Kyrsty Bonham (student)

P.S. if prior to this meeting any student wishes to contact me as an officer to discuss their views so i can represent that view if required please email me at lawrep@staffs.ac.uk

Will the union be putting on any transport to and from Stafford? 

I personally don't think anyone should generalise when it comes to political preferance; saying that every member or supporter of the British National Party are Nazi's is like saying everyone who votes Tory are stuck up, upper class snobs who live on their own country estate.

And we definately can't say that if someone is racist they will vote BNP!

I think that is enough people from stafford to put on some kind of transport, I for one want to come along

There is a "debate" on this article on slightly more neutral ground: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=178097348863 - the group called "Staffs University students who disagree with union's article on the BNP"

Some fun extracts:

"This is NOT a group against Assed, This is a group against Asseds actions!"

"PEOPLE AGAINST ASSED ARE EITHER FEE SUPPORTERS OR SCARED INTO SAYING THE S**T THEY ARE SAYING. CUS NO RIGHT MINDED THINKING PEOPLE, UNIVERSITY STUDENTS WOULD SAY THIS ELSE"

"if he knows their whereabouts chances are it's publicly available information, all he did was made it available."

"Regardless of whether you agree with their policies these are simply people who were despera...te and voted BNP because the current government system is failing them, as it is us all. Actions like this help the BNP to get sympathisers and thus gain support. "

"Whoever created this group is a degenerate and a BNP supporter. "

"No matter how well Assed has done in the past, this article is disgusting. The person who originally leaked this information has been dealt with criminal charges for the breach of privacy and breach of data protection. "

"If anything, this just goes to show that Assed is very good at what he does - It's just a shame that that is not being a Student President. All the anti-war campaigns, anti-racism, is all great work; but not the work of somebody who's position is to fight for their student's rights."

"How do you know those addresses are used to purely 'avoid' members? You dont know what people are capable of. It's not just BNP members that may use violence, they are plenty of other violent and hateful people in the world."

"Assed was attempting to look out for other students, people who are ethnic minorities who the BNP target, who the BNP would attack for the mere colour of their skin!"

Hi Vic,

We are planning to provide transport and are currently looking into logistics. Keep your eyes peeled here, on the Union website and on Facebook.

There will be a sign-up required in advance which will be handled through staffsunion.com

Hope that helps,

Tim

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Union-forced-remove-BNP-link/article-1527525-detail/article.html

Bit of a daft move really.. I think there'll probably be some sort of formal apology and it'll be forgotten about soon enough. I don't think he had considered the consequences of his actions at the time.. Bit irrational and angry. Kinda like the BNP.

I support Assed and his actions all the way; half of the battle of staying safe with nutters like the bnp is information, card carrying members are somewhat different to 'voters' of the bnp ... these are people who are committed to by any means necessary (read their website, the education manifesto is especially interesting) to throwing out of this country, killing if necessary, anyone of ‘non white’  decent, this includes people of mixed race parentage. 

I know students who have been threatened by the bnp and their ‘supporters’ at uni; what about their rights to be safe? 

Assed Baig is the best thing that has happened to the students and union here, even those who take umbrage at his actions here, whether they are aware of the benefit he brings or not.

            Students who have disabilities, who have sexualities other than hetero, genders other than ‘male’ or ‘female’ ethnicities other than ‘white English’ deserve to have information that could well keep them alive and well, those of us who are known supporters of diversity also deserve to be able to go to uni and go about our lessons without threats both overt and inherent … and to know if there is someone living in our neighbourhood who could do us harm.

            There is the suggestion that this will cause students to look for these bnp members houses … don’t be stupid, this rarely occurs, it is in truth the other way around, bnp members are more likely to stalk, bully and harass the students Assed is trying to help protect.

            So please stop panicking, agree or disagree with Asseds actions that is I think going to be relative to ones actual life experiences and knowledge … but please consider this from the povs of those of us who actually like being safe in our neighbourhoods, who if we do live in a neighbourhood where there are those we know would do us harm we can move or take precautions of always having a friend with us when we walk about those areas

 

I got quoted, glad to see. I still stick by what I said.

I think there is one thing Assed may have over looked here, and it's something I think we should be worried about.

Like any political movement the BNP have its violent supporters (I've seen the same up in Scotland with SNP supporters, some of whom are violently anti-english, trust me I know, despite living 16 out of 19 years in Scotland, because I was born in Scarborough I got seven shades of s**t knocked out of me for 10 years). And if there is indeed 30 BNP members living within 2 miles of the campus, and possibly much higher Stoke in General, does he not think that the University, and the Union could see a violent reprisal from some of the BNP supporters. The BNP councillors will likely do things the legal way, unlike Assed (I do remember his claims in the election were some claims he made were defamatory and unfounded against the Vote Staffs party). But what the councillors decide to do, and what the ground level supporters do, are often two separate things.

Also just to raise a point, what is Assed doing to help disabled students exactly? As I emailed him over three weeks ago about that issue and heard nothing. I raise this point as the vast majority of students under Disabled Student Support are not physically handicapped... so its something to ask, what is he doing to help us? 

With the current chaos surrounding getting student loans in, the various faculties in the university failing to live up to there end of the agreements and even some lecturers being bigoted against some students (I won't name the staff member for legal reasons, but I can reveal she described Autism as a "Mental Illness"). I think there are more important issues that the Union could really effect for us students than Stopping a War which the government clearly doesn't listen to the public over, or protesting for higher taxes across the UK (how do you think Scotland can afford free Uni for Scottish Students, english taxes and far fewer Uni's and courses). 

It's nice to see Assed is so passionate about things, passion is a great thing to see in humanity... but when someone is so focused like that, you have to wonder, just how fit for a position that is supposed to represent all, regardless of personal views, and rep all the views on a campus, is someone that passionate over just few issues suitable... that may seem cold, or rude, or even bigotted to some who will no doubt read wrong into what I said, but it is a point worth discussing. 

Dear Adam,

The ground level supporters will not indiscriminately attack any staffs uni student, that is not their way ... yes I do know what the ground level supporters are like and have no illusions as to their character, but I do know very well how they will operate … if they see a white probably English student they will try to gain sympathy and support for the issue and if possible for their organisation; what they won’t do is just attack and student they come across. 

            If anyone is in danger it is those of us who were in danger to begin with, the ones whom Assed was thinking of in the first place. (not to say he was right or wrong that is for Mondays meeting, simply share information and experience) 

            Secondly; if you feel Assed hasn’t responded quickly enough to your email then try emailing him again, we all know how un-reliable the uni email system can be  and how often a busy person can simply forget to get back to someone. 

            Lastly (sorry to go on) have you spoken to your student rep (one of your peers) and/or the union rep for your faculty (Assed to date for AMD) or the mentor for your faculty (Rachel Thompson 5th floor flaxman reception) about the particular lecturer you speak of? If you haven't then I do heartily recommend it as any or all of the above can provide a useful gateway to getting recognition, help and advice on this issue. 

Rebecca

 Hi Rebbeca,

I didn't say it was a dead cert, I just thought it was something to be worried about, and you are right, it would likely those who they would of attacked before. I just thought this gave them another reason that should be worried about. Like how that poor kid in Edinburgh was attacked few years ago during the last world cup for wearing an England football shirt, was just another reason the extreme needed to attack. 

Also, I dunno if it matters, but I didn't use the Student service, I used my personal one... for the exact same reason you warned about, the student one is incredibly unreliable.

And yeah, I have spoken to the Student Reps, Faculty Members (Including the mentor, and dept psychologist) , Student Support Service, So far, nothing. Other than seeing if the Union can help pressure them, only other idea I've got would land me aressted for GBH, so not a good idea really. 

Adam

The trouble is adam once we start thinking ... "we can't do that it might upset extremists, bigots etc' ... then we are in effect allowing them to castrate us and steal our freedom of speech whilst they are enjoying shoving their freedom of speech down everyones throats.  Again not saying Assed was right or wrong - simply that we must be careful about why we feel either one to be true :) 

Would probably still be worth sending it again, just to be sure, and Asseds email is still the uni email (as far as I'm aware) so still prone to the glitchiness of outlook ... not saying this is the case but it is worth considering it is something as simple as he didn't get the email or just forgot to reply. 

Might be worth contacting one of the other officers as well, then you can be sure your concerns about none physical disability/conditions issue will be noted

Regarding the lecturer issue it may be worth speaking to Vanessa the current union education and welfare officer http://www.staffsunion.com/union/officers/vanessabrumby/ 

  good luck

i cant beleive this at all.

personally i do not beleive in anything the bnp stand for an i detest them.

however there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that what assed did was completely wrong.

gary get over urself and check the langauge you are using. i am a skin head i have tattoos i am NOT a member of the bnp i do NOT go around bottling people.

so what you got bottled by some pig ignorant individuals that does not mean they are members of the bnp. stop using langauge that tars every one with the same brush.

if assed posted that link for his concern for students safety i really look forward to seeing the list of convicted rapists this week then the list of convicted murders next week then the list of suspected terrorists the week after.

is this going to happen? no of course it isnt because assed is using his position in the union to drive forward his own vendetta against a political group. i would like to point out whilst he is doing this he is literally doing nothing for the students at the university. a word of advice assed stop trying to fix the world and start trying to fix the uni.

and finally after the meeting last night in my opinion assed made himself out to be just as racist biggoted and ignorant as everyone he is trying to put down. apparently in his eyes because im white i cannot possibly know how it feels to be discriminated against. well im sorry but he is doing a pretty damn fine job of discriminating.

Well now either Assed began saying things at the meeting after i had to leave that he had not hinted at previously or a bunch of you continued to misrepresent what he said for your own ends ...

Whilst i was there the message from Assed and the rep from the NUS (can't recall her name) was that there are many, many forms of discrimination, and just as a bloke can't know what it is like to be discriminated against because they are female, so to, in general, someone of a 'white' ethnicity/skin colour' can not know what it is like to face 'racist' abuse day in and day out in this country in this society. 

Assed could not know, for example, anymore than you can, how it felt for me as a woman to hear the bnp tell women that mugging is worse than rape because women like sex its like force feeding them chocolate cake .... just as I can not know how Assed or anyone else of a none 'white' skin colour/ethnicity feels when they here they should be part of the 'final solution'. 

I imagine after i left things got more heated and more personal ... certainly as i left the abuse being hurled at Assed on unrelated issues was extreme, ugly and designed not to bring out the best in him ... 

Oh as a point of information the bnp is NOT a political group, they 'grew' out of the former 'national front' and designed themselves to become 'publicly acceptable' ... watch this video and see exactly what they think of even those who vote for them ... (see from .48 secs onwards) 

As i said at the meeting there is a context to this action, and that is the increasing threat, fear and abuse experienced by  'minority' students from the bnp and their supporters et al ...

now as i also said i am unsure whether it was the best thing to have posted the link, certainly as it stood with no referendum or survey of a sample of the student body to at least take into account, but simply making this only about the link and ignoring the surrounding issues facing students it imho to ignore the 'why' this occurred ... and if you ignore that then you might as well ignore the whole issue. 

“someone of a 'white' ethnicity/skin colour' can not know what it is like to face 'racist' abuse day in and day out in this country in this society.” Did you really just say that Rebecca? You have clearly never been to Scotland, The Irish and The English are always getting the shit kicked out of them, being verbally assault, and even having work superiors being bigoted against them… if you don’t believe me, go to Glasgow and ask any English or Irishman. Or even Asia, South America, Areas of Africa, or even some parts of Birmingham... just cause you dont see something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Its also a case that I’ve seen were basically any ethnicity can bigot against another, heck Ghandi in his younger days was very racist towards black people, calling them Kulfi… So don’t try and make out that it is purely white men that cause the problems.

Oh and btw, I do think Nick Griffen is a complete and utter moron than likely evolved from a dogs urine that splashed on some mushrooms.

Look, the debate about whether Assed was right to do this, or even if he is abusing his position, in the exact same way many racist groups do, by preying on fear or sympathy. Simply put, this needs to be left up to the courts to decide on, we get our say at the next student elections. 

*sigh* 

nice way to take my comment OUT of its context, and to misquote it to boot ... 

"IN GENERAL" and "IN THIS COUNTRY" this country hon is england, and the issues you refer to within 'Britain' are  xenophobic discrimination NOT racist discrimination ... there is a difference i suggest you read the oxford dictionary of sociology and the entries on race, racism, racial etc .... 

those in africa are also different, not necessarily not racist but the contributory social factors are such that one can not compare the two ... not to say it isn't a form of racism but it is different, NOR is it 'in this country' ;) 
 

(emphasis mine) 

I didn't -- i was speaking SPECIFICALLY about this country and a SPECIFIC form of racism --- you must learn the importance of context when reading and responding ... it will stop you making unfounded and rude accusations to people. 

Which is great as far as it goes, but is useless if you do not understand there is a difference between socially caused racism ie islamaphobia, use of terms like 'n*gger' and the xenophbia from say the english to the french, scots to english, english to irish .... the key to defeating the bnp and griffin isn't to compare him to dog piddle relatred funghi (amusing though that image is :)  ) it is to inform ourselves and others about these matters ... accurately. 

I will say one thing here, the fear Assed referred to as his justification was and IS real ... which folks would know if they listened more than they yelled at others. 

And that includes taking the context of what folks say into consideration. 

 Ok, 1 I brung up the global issue to highlight that it's not just this country that this kind of shit happens. 2. I am very aware what the differences are, having seen several young pakistani gentlemen from my college get beaten up because of the colour of their skin while I was up in Dundee working. and 3. Discrimination in any form is wrong, don't try and make it out that some are are less bad, thats just as bad as something Nick Griffin would do. 

Also I think it is important to bring up the xenophobic issue, as I have seen many SNP supporters and politions base their policies on their distrust of England, in the same way the BNP base theres on a hatred of europe and other ethnicities... try and paint it what you will, but discrimination is discrimination. hence why the examples I sited are applicable to the situation. 

I won't deny the Fear Assed keeps on about is real, but so is the fear of students that he is abusing power with his own agenda that doesn't help a large number of students. Hence why I said whether he should be in that position should be determined at THE ELECTIONS not exactly insighting a revolution by that. 

Oh and before you responce about how this is about race... no it's not, Assed uses that as his sword in a war of discrimination, in the same way north of the border I use nationality... Discrimination plain and simple in discrimination, and it's wrong, but if you think someones an ass because of there views, simple, don't talk to them, don't even waste thought on them, and obv in the BNP case get and out and vote for another party... thats how you truely show these people, whether Griffen, Assed, Me whoever that this simple petty mindness will never work... 

a one sided argument is not an arugment... all it takes to light that match that flames hate and violence is someone to jump up and attack back, rather than getting on with life.... sometimes theres no choice... like if members of the BNP, SNP, RESPECT, or even just some crazy drunks violently attacked the campus, but if there all they're doing is mouthing off... screw them, we've got a life worth living

I didn't say they were 'less' bad the term i used was DIFFERENT --- please stop makign things up about me it is unnecessary. 

They are ... DIFFERENT ... note different does not mean 'less bad' or 'irrelevent' it measn just wha tit isays 'different'. 

Now my assertion of FACT is that just as no man can know how a woman feels on being discriminated against because of her gender, no 'white' person cna know what it is like to live in england and english society as a 'black' 'indian' 'pakistani' 'east asian' etc person. 

May be when you manage to stop arguing against things i HAVE NOT said, you might just care to address some of the things i HAEVE said for once. 

Whether he is abusing his power is perhaps subjective, and it is worth mentioning that i have responded to and represented to assed and at the meeting BOTH sides of this. 

And yet it IS about racism, fascism, AND other forms of discrimination ... maybe not for you, i will not try to put words in your mouth, i wish you would grant me the same courtesy, but it is for many, pretending it isn't and that all forms of discrimination are the same is pointless. 

No-one let alone myself is promoting one sided conversations ... i would be happy with HONEST conversations, which so far has been woefully absent, you for example have warped my argument into something entirly unrelated to my words, context or point. Or personality I might add.

Also to enliken the SNP and RESPECt to he bnp is a mistake, you are giving the bnp legitimisation and that is a slippery slope my friend .... neither RESPECT nor the sNP support any form of 'final solution' until they removed it from their website the bnp stated in black and white their final goal was final solution .... watch the above video and it comes out of griffins own mouth.  

If you can find me a video of Sammond saying the same about the english (final solution etc) then i'll apologise and retract, but we both know none such video exists. 

If you need clarification on the meaning and context of any of the above i will be more than happy to go into it ... if however you persist in misstating - misrepresenting my points then i will say goodbye as it will be obvious the conversation can not be productive :) 
 

 Stop trying to insult me, it's just irratating. Also i didn't say Alex Salmond, unlike Nick Griffen, he has a brain and won't openly attack the english... but his party will, the grass roots members will... like with most parties... 

http://w w w. youtube. com /watch?v=kA771gLgwEA testimony from a Perth SNP conference, its what was seen by a yugoslavian immigrant. Just close the spaces and go to the link to read the description (I hate Embedding)

Also do not try and patronise me, as it is obvious that is what you are trying. Now obviously it would be hard to make you think the same as I have seen, seeing as you didn't see me lying in hosptial for 3 days after being assaulted when I was 14, 

Also I would like to point out from what I read on this forum what I am basing these assumptions on is what I can see (a problem with online as there is no tone to it, which often helps understanding).

Oh, and is said RACE not Racism... just to point out. As my opinion is that Assed, now as he did during the election, tries to use his race as a weapon. You might well think I'm a racist for saying that, frankly I'm past caring as it's obvious neither of us are either going to see eye to eye or truely understand where we each other is coming from. 

Oh and just to ask a question, seeing as the tone of your message denotes you think I have an IQ of 75 (which may well be because it is online), how is this wasting anyone time? Am I forcing you to type a responce, or anyone else on here to read it.... as far as I am aware no, you could easily ignore me, just as I could you... I am wasting noones time but my own.

If I may suggest, the pair of us may need to debate this in person, as I think both of us are misunderstanding each other on this text service, By that I am not suggesting you are stupid before you think that, far from it as most of your messages show true inteligence, even if I disagree with the views. I am merely stating that I beleive both of us are misinterpritating the meaning, I've seen it alot with emails, so if you want to meet to discuss in person as long as it's after Friday (I'm currently visiting reletives) I would be happy to do so.

Have you considered that it is not the medium but your chronic inability to respond to what is said to you AS IT IS WRITTEN that is the problem here? 

For your info; 

I have NOT insulted you 

I have NOT lessened the disgusting nature of xenophobic discrimination ALL i said was it is different, to what i was referring to that originally annoyed you. 

I am not trying to patronise you but you HAVE CONSISTENTLY misrepresented my views ... and that i WILL point out, if that is patronising then so be it. 

In CONSTANTLY inventing my pov to suit your desires you are stifling the conversation from being productive, you are not listening to that pov, and you are misrepresenting it in a manner which is pointless, rude, offensive and utterly, utterly meaningless. 

btw scotland is also NOT england -- my comments where contextually accurate to england and the situation under discussion .... 

I am in university on college road campus on wednesday mornings for the next two weeks ... although i'm not hopeful it would go well. 

 Right... ok I think it's pretty obvious me and you have incredibly different views (understandable given we're not clones), and so we could keep arguing back and for with each other till hell froze over, especially seeing as we both think each other is being rude, again a perception issue. 

I mean we're getting off the topic of was Assed right or wrong and near entering just and argument between the two of us, which I'm sure you'll agree is very counter productive. 

I think it's safe to safe, you have your opinions and views/perceptions and I have mine, and clearly their opposing each other, so I doubt either one of us would be able to convince the other to come round to their view. So I think it's best if we leave it, otherwise it's just going to stress out the both of us. The offer for a face to face discussion still stands, but if you don't want to I understand.

Also I would point out that my statement of text being a medium that can be mis-interipted is based on the work I've done with several Autistic Youth charities and from experience. Obviously you feel different about text, but sorry, thats just things from my perspective. You might not like that, and may even think of is as someone being an ass... all I can really suggest then is never work with autistic people, or anyone with ADHD or ADD, as it's a common trait amongst all of them. Not saying you couldn't, just might be something to be aware of. 

true ... 

As i said i'm in for the next two wednesdays free from 11-12 and on the second wednesday from 11-1pm after that i'm not in till after xmas break, don't live on campus and in third year so mountains of work. 

Well adam your statement was that we were both misinterpreting text, and that you'd 'seen it alot in emails' ... which is a little different to what you say above. 

Nor did i say text wasn't a medium that could be misinterpreted. 

 I simply do not feel it is the medium at fault here ... unless of course you have trouble interpreting text, if you do then tell me straight up without making out it is both of us ...  

fyi my views on this are experience based knowledge of many years of work as a forum admin, an online abuse survivor counselor and my offline work with vulnerable young people including those with ADHD autism etc in which enabling kids to begin utilising text as an expressive medium was my forte.
 

moving on ...........................

***********************************************************************************

let me ask you a question to see if there is any possibility of you understand what i'm saying and not what you have interpreted ... 

Do you think you can know how I feel as a woman who has faced daily abuse and discrimination because of my gender in a male gendered society? 

Do you think that if you have experienced any form of gender abuse this means you know what it is like for women in a male dominated society? 

Specifically to you know what it is like as a woman to hear an org, such as the bnp, tell you mugging you is worse than raping you because rape is like force feeding a woman chocolate cake, giving them something they like?

 Ok, you might not experience any problems with text based writing, and I appreciate you have experience with people with learning difficulties. I'll admit I don't always understand test, largely due to confusion over the tone, for example, when you wrote in your response in Capital Letters, it appears to me as if you are angry and thus shouting. I might be wrong there, but like yourself I to have worked with a number of young people with difficulties, and from what they've said its quite common. If you do not have a problem interpriting the manner in which text is meant then I apologise, but I've even known the odd person without any problems who finds text confusing, hence why i said it was the medium. 

I'm not going to pretend I know what it's like for a woman, as any attempt would likely come across as patronising (esspecially as the sexism I've suffered was minor, was just a prospective employer, this shop I'd been a regular customer of for years, said the reason I didn't even get an interview for the job was because I was a man and men are useless... obviously this is minor compared to the discrimination of assholes like the BNP). 

As I said I can't fully understand dscrimination for women, but then I have to ask if you full understand how it feels to be discriminated against for having learning difficulties, in a world were Employers, Senior Lecturors and a number of general public beleive issue's like Autism to be a mental illness, or a disease (the disease comment was made by the Former MSP for Dunfermline West, who thankfully lost his seat at the last election, but just an example).

Discrimination is all around, sadly. it shouldn't be, by any means, and it's not fair... but becoming a bigot yourself is never the answer... heck I'm not sure if even legal action is the answer (seeing as it's seen a decline in the number of women, ethnic, disabled employees reaching top positons, as companies fear being sued)

Now obviously thats not anywhere near as horrific as comparing rape to cake... although thats the kind of thing you could bring a legal action against the BNP, thanks to various anti-discrimination laws... whether it will work or not I can't say, all I know is their vunerable to the law suits, the comparison is like when PETA compare chicken farms to Concentration Camps, and just because they're a twat, doesn't mean you stoop to there level, you take the high ground and show the world that you're clearly the far more mature, inteligent and compassionate, in the wider world that counts for more than being able to make 100 people with IQ's close to 34 (joke) cheer.

In one line, no I don't know what it's like, I'm a man... and have different concerns towards myself regarding discrimination... now i might not always remember it in a heat of the moment, I just need rise above it... if I didn't several lecturors and teachers I've known would of been hospitalised..

As i said before Adam if you have or had problems then it was up to you to make that clear. 

Note i did not say people with learning difficulties can not have issues comprehending textual meanings I SAID (very clearly) that each person is an INDIVIDUAL and should be accorded the respected of being treated as such. For example, don't presume someone is automatically going to have text issues because of their learning abilities. 

And as i further said IF someone is a student or staff member at university then that person is capable enough to be able to take responsibility for their learning issues and make any issues they have clear to anyone with whom they are engaging in a text conversation. 
 

From what you say above i am going to assume, unless you tell me otherwise that you DO have issues with text as a communication medium ... and will try to take any point i feel you get wrong of mine and clear it up a time or two first .... but this also requires effort from you not to presume silly things about the other person. 

Unfortunately Adam most of the people i've talked with who are now mounting this campaign against Assed think they can and do understand what it is like to be a woman, or face learning difficulty discrimination .... and to know what it is like to be an ethnic minority and face that specific form of racism in our country .... 

Who do you think is becoming a bigot as an answer and why? 

Well to go a little off topic and speak of autism ... in this as in anything else that can for some come under the umbrella term 'mental health' there is alot of confusion, in part because since its 'discovery' it has been labeled a number of things, and its designation is constantly changing. 

This isn't to excuse people for being discriminatory against it, but perhaps can explain that in some case it is genuinly  a case of misinformation or at least out of date information rather than discrimination

The reason i asked you the question is to highlight how just as you can not know how I as a woman feels like being discriminated against for my gender, even though you have faced some gender discrimination as a male .... so too we as white people in a white run society as an ethnic majority can not in truth really understand the experiences of people living in our society of an ethnic minority. 

Which isn't to say we can not face a form of racial discrimination from said ethnic minorities, just that there is a difference in each form of racism .... and one which pervades, history, culture how society has been run, our laws, legal system, education, religions etc ... is a different, though not better or worse, form of discrimination, of 'racism', than that which you or I would face within this country as white 'english' or 'scottish' etc people. 

rushed this as off to vet with dog for vaccinations ... if anything is unclear please do let me know :) 

 I can appreciate your effort, but considering my past, I don't view it as silly to view things as an attack... as 94% of my life I've been under attack from someone (whether student, teacher, parent, reletive or stranger).... so sorry but it's just natural for me now.

I'd never claim to understand what a woman goes through, as I'm obviously not one... or even if I was I logically couldn't claim to understand what say a women whoses husband used to pyhsically assault her felt, all I could do is try and offer support.

When I said becoming a bigot... i was largely thinking of those Anti-BNP protesters who beyond telling people what they're truely like, and showing them in a normal light which exposes their hatred, go on the attack, like those ones in parliament square who through the eggs at Nick Griffen... which generated him sympathy as he looked under attack... as it seemed some people could not stand anything non-PC... now granted a lot of non-PC stuff is down right hate speech... but by violently attacking it or outing them rather than educating as to why its wrong is, in my mind, the same kind of intolerance that they seek to destroy.

I don't obviously understand how it is to be a woman... as I'm sure you most likely don't know what it's like to say - be english in scotland... or autistic under a school system that bases it's handling of a 14 year old on the advise given to people for a 5 year old. not anything wrong with that... its just life sadly... 

sorry if im not being clear or if im seeming advisarial, that isn't my intent, just stating things from a different perspective.

Trust me it is healthier to not do that ... i hope one day you will be able to see that .... if domestic abuse survivors can do it, anyone can do it :) 

I don't disagree that it is wrong, or at least c an be counter productive -- but it is not bigoted, not really. 

Then we can probably agree as 'white people' in a majority 'white' ethnicity society we can not know or experience racism the same way someone who is 'black, Persian, Asian et al' do in English society? 

Which is all i have said from the beginning :) 

no worries Adam .,.. i think we are perhaps not so far away form each other as it might appear. 

beccaxx